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Re: Linux version

Postby flowb » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:59 am

Gallo wrote:I am not a coder but i imagine that having a macOS version would ease the port to Linux ?

I don't know anything about the TD codebase, but macOS is built on a fork of BSD, which is a different branch of the POSIX family tree than Linux, which grew out of GNU. They have differently structured kernels and system calls. The gcc toolkit is available on both which streamlines compiling applications on both, but even that requires the availability of dependencies. I wouldn't care to speculate what sort of crazy dependencies Touch has.

Gallo wrote:Graphic stack under Linux could be a problem though and graphics Linux drivers could also...

Linux supports pretty awesome graphics. NVIDIA (Derivative's favourite) has great driver support on Linux, though I think the kernel yells at you for using closed source drivers (non-gpl, taints kernel...). Never tried using CUDA on Linux, but afaik, that's the preferred platform for most of NVIDIA's HPC GPU stuff (ie: Machine Learning)

Gallo wrote:I also like Linux ability to be tailored precisely for any purpose from great perf. server to computer striped down to strictly necessary environnement for autonomous installations where Mac and Windows needs the whole environnement to be run even the un-necessary services and tools.

Yeah, I used to think this too, but there are varieties of Windows (IoT now, and 'Embedded' before) that are made for creating smaller, more targeted system images. I think that there is some selection bias here. Most of us will probably never use a build of Windows that isn't in the 'Pro' or 'Server' family but, other variants do exist. They just don't get advertised as much. :)

Gallo wrote:Lightworks video editing software, Houdini, Nuke, Blackmagic hardware and software like DaVinci Resolve to name a few... already made the move. I hope Derivative will embrace this path one day.

Many of these applications didn't decide to jump ship from macOs and Windows to Linux. The vfx farms of yore used to be built on large networks of SGI/IRIX boxen, and transitioned (mostly to redhat) as SGI began to implode, because they had administrative infrastructure/practices for supporting POSIX type environments.

Touch's UI seems to run inside an openGL viewport, so I imagine getting that part to run on Linux would be fairly straightforward. Then comes the obnoxious bit. Supporting networking, fs and third party APIs across three platforms would require more testing. This slows down the development of new features, and leads to scenarios where 'such and such a feature' is broken on one platform and not another. A developer who is solving these inconsistencies is not adding awesome new fun stuff to Touch instead. :(

We already see bugs tagged for macOs and not Windows. I think folks like elburz dissed the macOs port on another thread a couple years ago because they'd prefer to see Derivative focus all development resources on growing the feature set, rather than solving inconsistencies between platforms.

There are only so many hours in the day.

I would loooooove a Linux port. I'd also like a Tesla, a pet serval, and to live in the Hundertwasser House in Vienna. :)
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Re: Linux version

Postby elburz » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:40 am

Im finally famous for something :lol:

I also had to look up with Lightworks was, so I wouldn't really count that as professionally supported software under active development. Houdini (SideFX), Nuke (Foundry), and Blackmagic are pretty large companies, and in Foundry + Blackamagic cases - multi-national companies...so throwing a team of devs to make a linux port even at a loss may be worth it for them. I don't think that's a fair comparison to Derivative.
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Re: Linux version

Postby Gallo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:26 am

Yeah i know. As i said i am not a coder nor an expert in graphics hardware devices so i probably don't know the underlying problems.

I already discovered things like SVG or Kinect are not compatible in TD macOS version so i can imagine how hard a linux port would be.

Anyway, i sometimes use openFrameworks for some installations and many times it runs much better in Linux than macOS (i don't know for Windows)

But i also imagine that if such a version exists, it should be only one linux distribution oriented or this would be a nightmare to support !

But maybe... one day... :)
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Re: Linux version

Postby flowb » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:29 pm

Just wondering,

How can you "not be a coder" but also use open frameworks?
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Re: Linux version

Postby Gallo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:31 am

I know some concepts like Object Oriented Programming, algorithm etc... Every language is a matter of syntax.

Though i don't know deep concepts of C++. openFrameworks is just that : a framework for creating audiovisuals that popularizes deep concepts. It brings C++ language to higher level, gives you the tools you need to produce visuals and hides the guts of the tool if you don't understand or don't need/want to understand it.

So i am able to use openFrameworks like i can drive a car, but i am not able to build or repair the engine.
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Re: Linux version

Postby brutesque » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:51 pm

I have recently delivered TD system for permanent setups to 3 different clients. Everything works great from a TD perspective. Except that the windows machines keep breaking. I'm now constantly giving support to these clients for reasons which have nothing to do with the TD project and everything to do with windows specific problems.
Comparing this to the linux machines I've delivered in the past, I'm literally living in a windows horror show. I'm afraid to touch these machines now because any little change keeps introducing new problems. Windows is just simply not an OS where I am the boss of the machine.

I will come back to this thread from now on every time I've delivered a new system to a client and I will post my issues here. I cannot bring my business to decent scale as long as I have to keep delivering windows machines.
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Re: Linux version

Postby nettoyeur » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:58 pm

Brutesque that sounds like you need to configure those windows machines quite a bit stricter.
If you you don't want to do that yourself, you can buy rocksolid show-configured Windows machines from companies such as http://xi-machines.com/en/index.php (Germany) which will never update of ever show any popup.

I have delivered many TD installations over the years, and I have done many very large scale shows with TD clusters running on a lot of windows machines, so the statement that is is impossible to scale your business or run anything on Windows without problems, seems to me a bit exaggerated. As you see on https://www.derivative.ca/Blog/ all those large scale installations are running Windows, a lot of them 24/7, and not a blue screen in sight - that was something of the win95 age. Since win7 windows has been rocksolid in my opinion, if you configure it right.

As said before in this thread, as Derivative has a small team, to me it's not worth it to divide the manpower of that development team even further over another OS. Also, if I would have a linux machine with TD, what good is that if none of my sensors, depth camera's, kinects, videocards, capture cards, SDI cards, stereo camera's, you name it, have a linux driver?
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Re: Linux version

Postby flowb » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:15 am

Not to blow holes in this lovely defense of Windows:

But most SDI cards you'd care to use do have Linux drivers. :)

Edit: that's also true for graphics cards.
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